I'm seeing a bit different meaning in Malor's comment. To explain it a bit, I see parallels to how events that are targeted at female gamers. For both, the success of the events over time seem to rely on which part of the target audience the emphasis is on - in this case, is the focus more about 'gay' or is it more on 'gaming'? When the events are more about the subgroup than gaming it's trying to attract, the tone that is set really skews the people marketing towards broad (but still positive) stereotypes to maximize sales, which often end up with a fake, manufactured feel that seems more like "if you're X, then you are supposed to like Y" kind of thing (to go back to the female gamer parallel, seeing games women are 'supposed' to be into, such as fashion, shopping, cute and/or pink things, etc), then you end up with the negative 'othering' I think Malor is speaking of.
However, if the focus is on the gaming end, while still having gay-themed events and hosting a positive gaming environment, it has a better chance at succeeding over time since it is not trying to define what a group is supposed to like at the exclusion (in the sense of what events and products are featured) of other products that are popular but not directly targeted to that subgroup.
In this case, the organizers have the right idea it seems.
"Gaymercon is about adding MORE gamer space, not taking people away from established gamer spaces," Williams says. "I think gaming culture has grown to the point where subcultures appearing within it is a natural and healthy progression. We are not separating from gaming culture -- we are growing it in our own unique way."posted by chambers at 9:30 AM on August 31 [1 favorite] but do we really need special interest groups for "Latinos who like to knit" or "Croatian racquetball players?"
Yes, we really need them. When the standard examples of these events and situations are seen as hostile to a subset of the people attending them, when they are supposedly for "everyone" sometimes it's useful to actually have a place where you can be yourself, the person who you are, and not have to do it within a culture that is actively hostile to you and/or only paying lip-service to your inclusion.
If you are confused about why this is the case, there are a lot of good overviews on the internet and I'd suggest googling something like "Why don't we have a white history month" or "invisible backpack" to explain why the history of having safe spaces for historically oppressed minorities is a big difference from having a safe space for, say, Red Sox fans, or vegans.
This post talks about the conflict and about the things that people are thinking about when deciding whether to put on an alternative event. If you are going to continue to comment in this thread along these lines, you spend a little bit of time trying to read the room and not jump in here with well-worn tropes laden with dog whistles like "special interests" which historically has been used as a way to deny people basic civil rights. Basically this is the shorthand "If you are not trolling please try harder to look as if you are not trolling" request from me.
posted by jessamyn at 10:08 AM on August 31 [18 favorites]
Houston has a pretty strong gaymer community, and they had some Pokemon themed cosplayers at Pride this year. It was adorbs.
I remember the first time I went to pride and saw someone wearing a tshirt that said "Talk Nerdy to Me" - I just about died. Sure, Pride is always a rainbow of subcultures from within the subculture, but this was really the first time I saw someone identifying with nerd/geek culture within the gay community and I was thrilled to think that this might become A Thing.
I hope that this helps the larger gaming community recognize that they have a problem. I was a gamer long before I knew I was gay. But those to identities have often been at odds with each other. I would love to game socially... but it seriously harshes on my mellow when some asshat in my guild on World of Warcraft starts calling someone else a "faggot." Which happens, basically, every single goddamn day. In that respect, the best and worst parts of massively-multiplayer games are the other players.
As griphus noted, I can't just stop being gay. But I can (and have at various times) stop playing games with others because I've been made to feel awful and unwelcome because I'm gay.
I'm sure the solution for me is somewhere in the middle. I will never feel comfortable at a convention. And in the last three years I've managed to go to precisely that many gaymer meetups. So for me, it isn't the meatspace social aspect so much as creating a safe virtual space for me to enjoy gaming without homophobic asshats making me glad that I'm gaming in the safety of my own home.
posted by jph at 10:08 AM on August 31 [3 favorites]
Well, my assumption was that they were creating a gay convention because they were uncomfortable, for some reason, at the straight one. If cons are anything like XBox chat, I can see why they might want to.
In a bar, assuming you're going for sex/relationships, segregating into gay versus straight seems intelligent; you're trying to pre-qualify potential partners. But, while I'm not gay, and am thus projecting rather than speaking from experience, it at least seems like it wouldn't matter that much for gaming -- you can battle a straight person in Magic just as effectively as a gay one, no? Or trawl through a dungeon?
I hope they have a great time, but unless the big reason to go to a con is to find someone for after-hours "gaming", it seems a little weird to split themselves off from the mainstream that way. At least on the surface, it strikes this straight guy as a little counterproductive.
posted by Malor at 10:26 AM on August 31
I realize you're saying this as an absurd example, but considering how overwhelmingly white the knitting community is, I could totally see that as something that would be welcome. Especially if you're implying that its a group that's open to Latino guys, and not just Latina women.
Mostly, I don't see what the problem is with hanging out with people who are like you. Not even all the time, just some of the time.
I really didn't try to join geek and gaming meatspace communities until college, when I immediately started wondering why I hadn't done it sooner. The answer was that I went to a women's college with a high GLBT population, so being a lady kinsey 5 was considered normal. After college? When I tried to join new geek/gaming communities with a general audience? I was constantly reminded how nonstandard I was. Nowadays I get most of my geek meatspace interactions from my knitting group, which just happens to be mostly comprised of geeky GLBT women (and a couple guys).
I can hang out with geeky guys, or straight women, or non-geeky lesbians or whatnot, and I do! It's just nice to also be able to hang out with my people from time to time.
That being said, as much as I cringe at the dickwolves and gay jokes in Penny Arcade, PAX has been the only gaming convention I've been to where I haven't felt uncomfortable or harassed for being female. I'd go back again.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:32 AM on August 31
Sometimes Latinos like to knit, and want to hang out with other Latinos. It really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. No "othering" required -- some non-Latino knitters might even end up joining the group!
I row with a gay crew team (one of three in the world!), and every few years we have this same identity crisis. The homophobia that was rampant in our sport in the early-90s has largely died out in our Enlightened Urban Area, largely voiding out the original reasons for the foundation of our team.
These days, our focus is very much on the rowing, rather than the gay. An increasing percentage of our members are straight, and it's really no big deal. Some of them are definitely "allies," while others simply preferred the vibe of our team.
However, we're a competitive team, and have a fun little social circle largely made up of like-minded people. Most of us don't have "gay jobs," cook "gay dinners," have "gay families," or even live in "gay neighborhoods." When you're a part of a small minority like that (especially one that's often oppressed), it's really nice to have a social circle and "safe space" that shares or supports your identity. If that social circle revolves around something else that you like doing, that's pretty dang awesome!
Also, this sort of thing is really fucking important for young kids who are starting to come of age. Growing up in my small (pop 6000) hometown, I knew one out gay person, and he was a year younger than me. Suffice it to say, I was terrified of what sort of "lifestyle" that being gay would lead to, and was similarly terrified that I didn't fit in with the twinks, drag queens, and [whatever other stereotypes that Ryan Murphy is currently perpetuating on TV]. Honestly, I had no idea what it was like to be a gay adult, because I didn't know any.
If I was, as a confused 16-year-old, able to attend a 'gaymercon', and see that it was exactly like any other gamercon, possibly even meeting some well-adjusted/non-stereotypical adults in the process, the next few years of my life would have been so much better. There's a lot of pressure today for out gay adults to "lead by example," and while I don't necessarily agree with the basis of that argument, I do think that it's important for the "average Joe" kind of gays to be out there, and attending/supporting events such as this one. It's awesome that we're seeing more and more celebrities/actors coming out of the closet, but I think it's even more important for the kids of tomorrow to see the out gay gamers, athletes, teachers, sales clerks, mayors, middle-managers, accountants, and doctors.
posted by schmod at 10:33 AM on August 31 [1 favorite]
I really like video games: playing them, talking on web about them, reading books about them, listening to podcasts, interacting (in person) with other people who play games, writing about them, whatever. It's a significant part of my life, and probably my biggest passion. And I, literally, can't comprehend what life would be like if the community aspect of this thing that's a huge deal in my life was openly hostile to me, whether directly or (more likely) ambiently.
We need to support this as enthusiastically as the LGBT community does because at the end of the day, this isn't a problem that LGBT gamers have. It's a problem that we all have and it's shameful. I'm not pointing fingers. I'm not saying YOU THERE, HUBERT J. RANDOM WITH XBOX CONTROLLER, FEEL BAD! That doesn't accomplish a damn thing. But when a group of people who are, as far as passion for this thing goes, just like us says "hey, we're having a rough time and, while things are getting better, it would be great if we had a place where we didn't have to worry about that," the response has to be "how can we help?"
posted by griphus at 10:58 AM on August 31 [4 favorites]
As was noted above, this assumption is a big part of why you're making the mistakes you're making here.
it seems a little strange to voluntarily do what they fought so hard against.
Yeah, see, that's not what they fought against. What they fought against was not having the choice. Gay bars didn't all close down after Stonewall. There's tremendous value in having a sense of community and shared experience. To do this as gamers is easily understood, since the video game mainstream (like every other media mainstream), even when it works towards inclusiveness, is still pretty overwhelmingly geared towards straight people. I don't think it's so hard to figure out why it would be a welcome change to be able to hang out with other gamers without (as one example of a million microaggressions) having to hear someone complain that they don't want the main character of Mass Effect to have a gay option since that would somehow make him less manly. And, again, if gaming's your hobby then maybe it'd be awesome to have a space where you hang out with other gamers who have more of a chance of sharing your experiences and values. It's hardly segregation to want to have that experience, especially since it doesn't come at the expense of experiences in other circles at other times.
And as has also been noted, straight people are more than welcome to come to it. In this way it's a counterbalance to most gaming cons, where "straight" is the default setting (much like, oh, almost everywhere else).
I honestly can't parse that logic, so my assumption is it's all about the hookups.
That seems like a hell of a leap to make, since we're in the age of Grindr and Growlr and all the assorted things like that - there isn't really a need to dress up an excuse to hook up as there are thousands of venues for that already. Will people hook up? Yeah, probably - just like at any other con. Will some people be there mainly for the hookups? Yeah, probably, just like any other con. Is that the reason for the con's existence? Nope.
Up above, jessamyn suggested reading up on the invisible backpack. It might be a pretty good place to start, and might help explain some of the pushback you're getting here. I know it just seems like the ol' pearl-clutching PC echo chamber firing up again, but really - do some reading with an open mind.
And I'm not sure but I think a lot of the sense of trolling actually came from this:
Ever since having victim status became a coveted prize
I mean, come on. Come on.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 11:15 AM on August 31 [5 favorites]
Really? Didn't Mass Effect and Skyrim have some characters that were only romance options for same-sex relationships? I didn't really hear much of a stir about this, but then again, I live in Massachusetts. Was there a big commotion about it elsewhere? (I'm not being sarcastic; I'm legitimately curious.)
I think it's a sad commentary that people apparently can't understand how sometimes it's nice not to be surrounded by a casually hostile majority. Log on to any online game and the endless repetition of the word faggot is inescapable. How hard is it to understand that it's nicer to be able to share a hobby without being bombarded with hate speech.
You know, I grew up very poor, and before I got accepted into a specialized high school in New York City, I went to junior high in Spanish Harlem where - as a white person who was a minority in school - I was subjected to casual racism and epithets all the time. So it's not like I don't understand it; I dealt with it every day for four years. I just don't get why you would care. The people doing this name calling are not loved ones, they're not professional contacts, they're not people you respect in any way, nor are they in any position to advance or hinder your life. In other words, they don't have any hold over you other that that which you allow them to have in your mind... so why do their opinions matter? They're just dust in the wind, you know?
I think an equally important question is why do gamers need cons. Seems like they are trying to make themselves seem special by segregating themselves. Can't they go to other already established cons the like the car/boat/gun/comic/toy/livestock con we have every year? nooooo, they had to go and start a cons for "gamers".
Ha! OK, good point. When you put it that way, I guess I concede that some of my original point does seem a little ridiculous. Thanks for putting it into perspective.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 11:28 AM on August 31
(There's something interested and related-- the fact that many women gamers are also closeted.)
Any gay gamer that outs him or herself gets to deal with a ton of unwanted attention. This is true of the first ones that do so. It is less true of the ones that follow. For somebody who thinks he or she is the only gay person in some community, it's likely not worth it. But the whole situation means that that person doesn't have much sense of how prevalent homosexuality is in that community.
When gay gamers get together (to play, to complain, maybe even, yeah, to engage in some hanky-panky), they're going to come back to their internet communities with a new understanding that they're not alone. They'll realize that even if they do out themselves, the unwanted attention they're getting isn't from everybody in the community. They'll realize that there's enough of them out there that it's worth standing up to defend a friend, even if it means suffering the same attacks.
Describing this as self segregation is a little strange. We are not talking about a mass exodus of gay gamers to build an arcology on Sealand. We are talking about a convention of people who will return to their homes and their internet communities. The question is whether they return with a larger sense of alienation, or with a sense of solidarity.
posted by nathan v at 1:23 PM on August 31 [2 favorites]
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Source: http://www.metafilter.com/119507/Will-Gaymercon-Help-or-Hurt-Gamings-Gay-Community
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